Edgar Cayce And Animals In The Afterlife

🐾 Episode Summary In Part 2 of this deeply heartfelt conversation, Trisha McCagh continues her exploration with Jenny E. Taylor into the spiritual lives of animals, reincarnation, and the enduring connection between humans and their animal companions. 

Building on the insights shared in Part 1 about the teachings of Edgar Cayce, this episode dives deeper into questions many animal lovers carry in their hearts: Do our animals return to us? Are they still with us after they pass? And how do soul connections with animals continue across lifetimes? 

Trisha and Jenny share powerful real-life stories of animal reincarnation, including uncanny examples of animals returning to their families in new forms. They also explore the profound idea that animals often remain energetically connected to us after death, walking alongside our lives even when we cannot physically see them. 

The conversation also touches on compassion for animals, ethical treatment, and the lessons animals bring into our lives—teaching us unconditional love, loyalty, and presence. Through Jenny’s decades of research and experience with animal advocacy, listeners are reminded that animals are not simply companions, but fellow travelers on our soul’s journey. This episode offers comfort to anyone grieving the loss of a beloved animal and provides a hopeful perspective: love never truly disappears—it simply changes form. 

⏱ Chapters / Timestamps

 00:00 – Welcome back to Part 2 

00:20 – Can we ask animal souls to return? 

03:15 – Soul groups and spiritual connections 

06:18 – Real stories of animal reincarnation 

10:30 – Personal experiences with animal communication 

14:00 – Animals greeting loved ones in the afterlife 

17:00 – Compassion and advocacy for animals 

19:15 – Healing grief after losing a beloved pet 

🐦 Animal News Segment 

The Amazing Intelligence of Crows In this fascinating segment of Animal News, Trisha and Dana explore groundbreaking research into the intelligence of crows and other corvids. Long misunderstood as “bird brains,” crows are now recognised as some of the most intelligent animals on the planet. 

From crafting tools to retrieve food to using traffic to crack nuts, crows demonstrate remarkable problem-solving abilities. Research shows their cognitive skills rival those of great apes, and they can even remember food locations for months. Trisha shares personal stories of communicating with neighbourhood crows and observing their teamwork, social intelligence, and playful personalities. 

👤 About the Guest 

Jenny E. Taylor is a spiritual educator, animal advocate, and researcher of Edgar Cayce’s teachings on animals, nature, and consciousness. 

She is also the author of The Age of a Spider Monkey, written under the pen name Jeannie K. Bailey, sharing her experiences observing animals and reflecting on their intelligence and emotional depth. 

https://www.amazon.com.au/Age-Spider-Monkey-Other-Revelations/dp/B0B2HN9RSB 

🎧 Listen, Share & Stay Connected Thank you for listening to Animal Talk with Trisha McCagh. If this episode touched your heart, follow the podcast, share it with fellow animal lovers, and help us continue giving a voice to the wisdom of animals and the natural world. 

🌐 www.animaltalk.com.au 

🐾 Hashtags #AnimalTalkPodcast #TrishaMcCagh #JennyETaylor #AnimalReincarnation #AnimalAfterlife #AnimalSouls #PetLossHealing #AnimalWisdom #AnimalCommunication #AnimalSpirits #CrowIntelligence #Corvids #AnimalConsciousness #NatureWisdom#RobertIrwin

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:02

Hello everyone and welcome back. This is part two of my fascinating conversation with Jenny E. Taylor. In part one, we explored what Ed Casey really said about animals and nature, and it was truly eye-opening. If you haven't listened to part one yet, I highly recommend you do that first before diving into the next part of our conversation. What is your perspective on asking animal souls to come back?

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Well, I I mean I think it's perfectly fine given that we give them the choice. You know, I would say, um, I would say something like, I would welcome you back into my life and whatever form you want to come in, you know, and whatever whatever timing works for you. I would say it that way. And I have um experienced it. It sounds like you for sure have experienced it. And I think that uh it is absolutely fine. Yeah. Um as long as we're not pushing our free will onto a situation, then yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Let them choose. My experience has been that this is a hard one to push our free will on when their animal passes. Uh I've had a lot of people ask me about this and say, you know, can my dog come back? Can my cat come back? And I said, Well, I can ask them, but it it's up to them. And their answer to that is if need be. So they're here for a distinct purpose with us. If that has been accomplished, if they go back to the afterlife, then if uh you perhaps on your journey, because of free will, has got off the path of your purpose, you're diverting somewhere else, they may they may be the correct energy and everything to get you back on path or back in the purpose that the two of you have set out to do. So that's when the animal will come back. And as you could see with Shay, he had a purpose.

SPEAKER_04 1:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

The animals will say, I don't just come back for for whimsical reasons. For whims and fantasy, they call it. Right. Um, there's there's a real purpose to it. So that's quite interesting as as well from the animal's perspective. I I've learned so much about all this because of the animals speaking to me and telling me about these things. So, you know, a lot of it I yeah, I had no comprehension of. Um, but they've been very adamant about this, you know, so so very interesting. Um now what do they stay in the same goal soul groups according to Casey?

SPEAKER_04 2:38

Uh the the examples Casey gave, they did uh they did, I won't say they stayed in the same soul group, but they were in the same soul group. So that could mean they were also in other soul groups. Um because when you think about the humans staying in a soul group, that can fluctuate as well. And so maybe they're with one person from the soul group or another person from the soul group, or you know, but they have definitely in those two cases of Mona and and Peggy, they were with the family at other times. So I or when you say soul group, where you mean group mind?

SPEAKER_03 3:18

No, sort of soul groups. There's sort of a um in the afterlife, there may be a soul group. I liken it to Mission Impossible. Have you seen the series, right? So you've got a mission on you've got a mission on Earth, you know, you want to go down there and you want to learn something, and and so you open up your catalogue and you go, hey, I do want to experience a bit of a hard childhood because I want to build resilience, I want to build determination. So I need a couple of parents, please, that want to learn about this particular thing. And then someone will put their hand up. They're all in your soul group. Look, I know I was your dad last time, but I want to be your brother this time because I can really help you with that particular learning skill. So then you end up with your portfolio of who's coming down at different times on the earth plane. So that's a soul group, you know, it because because the next life they they were something else or they were a different relationship to you.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

They do, but they okay, I I but I don't know if that means they haven't been in other soul groups, but I think you know I think that we can peek into other soul groups too, and maybe we don't feel comfortable there because it's a new experience for us, or you know, um and we don't quickly recognize the people that we sing to in in in a comfortable lifetime. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

And do we keep adding to these soul groups or are they just an original soul group, or does somebody graduate into a different frequency of soul group?

SPEAKER_04 4:45

I think that was in the case he readings that um sometimes uh he would say, Well, in that lifetime they were they were with you, but on the other side, like you were here, but you they were still hanging out with you, but you weren't awareness.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Yes. And that's definitely been my experience as well, where the people say, uh, you know, are the the animals just describe I haven't left you. I still walk your story. They talk about this all the time. They said, I'm still walking the story. In fact, I can still hear you, see you, feel you. It's just a little bit more difficult for you to do the same for me. And also, I want to stay a little bit anonymous because I don't want to be the center of your attention because your life should be the center of your attention and your path. So they don't want to be constantly giving signals and signs because then people will look for it every day instead of getting on with their thing. Oh, you know, because animals are selfless, they're they're like you say, they're they're like God force. They they're not thinking of themselves, they're thinking of why they who they're doing it with, why they're doing it, and to help. Yeah and to help. Yeah. It's it's that's why I love them so much. And I'm I'm I'm sure that's how you feel as well, that they're just constantly there for our benefit. Yeah. And we and we need to now think what can we do for them. Absolutely. In in many ways. So can you sell, can you tell us some of the standout true stories um that you found about reincarnation of animals?

SPEAKER_04 6:21

Yes. So for a while there I was collecting stories. I thought I would put a book together. And I I haven't put the book together, but I'm still collecting stories. And um I so I've had I've had a few that I thought were really great. One of them um that really stands out for me was um a friend who well, an acquaintance uh through Facebook, she said that she had um she used to have a greyhound named Jesse, and that was spelled J-E-Z-Z-Y. And after her greyhound passed, a couple of years later, her daughter adopted a greyhound and unknowingly, because didn't know then the this yet, but when they got her paperwork, saw her name was um Jazzy. Did I say Jesse or Jazzy? Jesse, Jesse. Jesse the first Jazzy. I just know there were one letter different the E and the A. It was the only thing different. And the paperwork also showed they shared the same birthday, not the year, but the same day. And um the the mom and daughter were convinced after you know experiencing this new greyhound that they were the same, uh same. And then I had an experience with a cat that I hadn't adopted. Um, my son actually recognized that this cat was a former cat of ours. And um, this was a male-female switch, but still a cat. So I had had a cat named Simon, and um after he passed away some years later, adopted Bobby Jean. And my son was like, you know, we had adopted three kittens at the at the same time, and um they were all rescues, feral. And this one of them was one he spotted as being Simon. And I didn't really recognize it until he showed me. I like that about kids that they can see that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 8:11

And um oh they can. Yeah, well they're they're closer, they're closer to the birth process, aren't they?

SPEAKER_04 8:17

Yeah, to to when they when they came here.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Oh yes, oh yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

So um, and then I had another family member who was confident that a previous uh male cat was now a female dog.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

They will, yeah, they will do things very specific. I actually had another phenomena happen with um a cat that I had lost and another cat that I had got very recently around that that same time, Shay, Shay again, um and the original cat who actually got me into all animal communication because I used to be in dentistry. So this cat named Bo, he passed. Um he had a story into himself. That's the first time I ever heard an animal communicate with me was with Bo. And when Bo passed, and then I got Shay, a couple of days, Shay was only nine weeks old, and there was a phenomena that happened only a couple of days after I got Shay. Now, Bo was extremely unusual. Okay, I don't think you'll have ever heard of this. You may, you may, but we lived at the time in a um an apartment which had a glassed in balcony, and every night Bo would go out onto the balcony, he'd go to the left hand window, throw his head back and howl at the moon in in a cat's way. And then he'd go to the next window to the right, throw his head back and howl at the moon. Now, when he first started doing this, I thought, well, that's unusual. What's he doing? I've never seen I saw my dog do that once, but never a cat. So I rang up the person who where I got bow, and she said, he didn't do it as a kitten, I've never heard of it. And she was an animal behaviorist, actually, and she'd never heard of it. She said, You have a very unique cat. So every night he would do that.

SPEAKER_04 10:11

My earrings are a wolf howling at the moon, by the way. Oh, that is beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Yeah. So you're fitting right into this story. So that just went on for the whole time I had Bo. When he passed, and I got to Shay, two days after Shay arrived, as a nine-week-old kitten, he went out onto that balcony to the left window, threw his head back and howled, and then did it to the right window. And of course, that's how all this animal communication got started because I went, oh my god, what happened? You know, how could that be? And so, in pursuing that and finding that, um got into animal communication and realized that he found out that there's a phenomena where they can actually merge with the energy of Shay. Bo can merge with the energy of Shay. He just slightly moves out of the way because when he howled at the moon, it was in an adult cat's voice. Now, I was with my husband, ex-husband now, but I was with my husband at the time and he saw it as well and just sat down and just had his mouth open for quite some time because we couldn't fathom what was going on, and apparently that's a phenomena, and we both saw it with our own eyes. And he did that on and off for the next month.

SPEAKER_04 11:29

So was that sh uh Bo saying hi to you?

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Yeah. He was saying hi to me, and I'm A-OK. Don't grieve for me, don't feel bad for me, I'm absolutely fine, and I'm showing you in a way that is only pertaining to me. There is no mistake. I've never had a cat howling at the moon. This can't be, oh, what a coincidence. You know, it was he picked something. Obviously, this whole thing was planned because he had a distinct behavior from the beginning, you know? It's it's a really amazing phenomena, and other communicators have heard about it. Um, many know about it, many, you know, in psychic development, it it apparently it's it's quite common, but I've actually seen it in animals. So that was quite thrilling for me, you know, um, to have it with my own, yeah. With my own animals in completeness. So Shay, yeah, so Shay, you could see, was a very pivotal cat. Um, Matty, the Beau's sister, was also very pivotal because she was there from the beginning and she taught me everything I knew about animal communication. So you can imagine my life with those two cats, turned my life upside down, and all the things that we're talking about today came to the fore. Um, so that's why you know I'm quite informed on it because I had uh I had informants. I had informants. Yes, yes. Right now, you actually have some inspirational stories that you found around communications with animals in the afterlife.

SPEAKER_04 13:05

I do. I have one I'd really love to share. It's a it it is uh now this one I can't um think about without crying on, so I'm gonna try not to cry. But um, I had this um uh I used to, when I worked at Edgar Casey's ARE, uh was in the publishing division, and I helped, you know, with the publishing the books and the marketing and things like that. And um I met uh our the one of the authors was a um medium, psychic medium named Anthony Quinata. And when I was doing some um research for animals in reincarnation and animals in the afterlife, I it I had heard that John Holland had seen um, you know, animals uh while he's doing readings for people and he would see their animals with them and tell the people that you know so and so's there. And I asked Anthony if he'd ever experienced that, and he said yes, often. And he told me the story of um redoing a reading for a woman who had um connected with her son on the other side. Her son had passed, and as she's connecting with her son, he tells her there there's a dog with him, he says it's his dog, and she says, Yes, his dog died two days before he did. And Anthony said that's because he went first to be there to greet him when he passed. And I mean, that is just something else, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 14:45

And you know, in the messages that they give to people when they passed is things like, I'll be waiting for you, I'll be there when it's your turn to return home. So they very much are there to greet you. So that that you just were saying is absolutely been my experience as well. Um, absolutely. That's just it's so beautiful, and they are selfless. And, you know, as I keep reiterating, we just need to do more for them. I'm so happy that you're on this journey. And um, I feel like I have a fellow traveler.

SPEAKER_04 15:22

I do too. Yeah, I'm hoping to be back again. I'm you know, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Oh, I'm counting on it. I'm counting on it. Um, definitely we would love to have you back and you know be talking more in more detail and also about so many other things to do with animals because obviously we're we're so on the same path. It's it's it's just amazing. Now, you've also been a volunteer uh at a number of organizations with animal welfare and even in zoos. What do you think your experiences with those animals um have taught you?

SPEAKER_04 15:55

So yeah, I have worked at animal nonprofits many, um, so I've been in the nonprofit industry for 40 years, and 20 of those were at Ecker Casey's ARE, and the other 20 have been uh for um you know advocating for animals. But I also volunteered at a zoo for nine years. And so I would just say out of all of those experiences that I've had, what I've seen, the cruelty I've seen, and um the industry of um zoos and everything, um I I learned compassion. I think the most thing that I've learned is to to have compassion and empathy for animals and to really um I can really relate, relate to them in a way that makes me want to help them and um advocate for them and be a voice for them. Um so uh, you know, my experiences in the zoo, I actually did write a book. I did finish one of my books that I've been finished. I wrote a book about my experiences um volunteering at the zoo because it was for nine years, I saw a lot and it it really informed me. Um it was a wonderful experience to spend so much time with so many different kinds of animals, get to know them, learn about them. Um, that was wonderful. But then um coming to the understanding that they really did not belong in captivity and that animals are not really ours to put into captivity and gawk at or use for entertainment or you know, however you want to phrase it, I I would say um I would love to see animals in sanctuaries or in in wild in the wild and not in zoos. Um, because of that's that's a dream. Yeah, that would be lovely. Or have all zoos convert to sanctuaries, meaning they, you know, stop breeding them for sale and you know to other animals. And also had much bigger areas and let them do what they should be doing in the natural just just like we were talking earlier about um our free will forcing animals to do things we want them to do instead of letting them act naturally. I mean, if you see animals in the zoo or in the circus, you're not seeing them act natural. That is not um allowing them to be themselves and with their God-given talents, which are already you know impressive.

SPEAKER_03 18:17

Absolutely, and agree with everything you've said. But the the book that you were speaking of is The Age of the Spider Monkey. So um and I was going to mention that later anyway, because of course, if um our audience would love to get a read on that, they can get that from Amazon. All these details will be within this episode at the bottom. So it's uh it's not a problem. But that that that would be a read of a lifetime, totally. And I can't wait to you get your next book out. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

And by the way, I do write under a different name, and that is Jeannie K. Bailey. Um, just want to throw that out there because somebody may find it and think, but that doesn't say Jenny Taylor. Um, I was trying to respect the privacy of the zoo that I volunteered at, and so I I used a different name.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

Oh, isn't that lovely of you? So that's your pen name.

SPEAKER_04 19:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Yes, yes. No, thank for that because people might think, oh, well, it's that's a different author. It must be just the same name, different author. So uh yes, that's your that's your pen name. So just finishing up, Jenny, what advice would you give to someone who is absolutely paralyzed with grief from losing one of their furry loved family members?

SPEAKER_04 19:27

Yeah, so um, well, first I would I would say how sorry I am because I, you know, I know we all I think we all know what that feels like. And it is, I just want them to know that it is a valid feeling. And some people will um say that it's only an animal, but this is a family member, and that is a really tough separation to go through. But on the other hand, uh life will go on, they will live on. Uh, there is, you know, Casey said that um death is just a di moving into a different vibration. They haven't really gone anywhere, like you were saying earlier, they're still here. And um, and so I hope that they can take heart in that, knowing that they they not only are they still here, but it's possible you will meet again. Probably you will meet again. It may not be in this lifetime, but it's possible you can meet in this lifetime again.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

Absolutely. Just so they know, yeah, they actually haven't gone anywhere. And they they're your best friends, you they're your besties. And your best friend would never leave you. Just think about that, right? Your best friend would never leave you, why would they? And but I know that it's quite different losing a person and an animal because I've lost both. Uh uh, you may have as well. For me, it's worse with an animal. It's not just because I love animals and I'm on my life of you know advocacy for animals. It's more than that. It's because when we get an animal, we get them from start to finish. And so we see them 24-7 virtually for their whole life. And all the responsibility and the decisions are made by us for that animal. So it's a lot more on us, I I feel, and also we've had them in our life, and they've given this purity of love, unconditional love, that I don't know that we always experience with a with a person. You know, I think it's it's yeah, it's it's something we have with animals that often we don't get from from from other people. That's one way of looking. But also, I've lost members of my family, and they were not living at my house. I saw them, but not 24-7. I didn't make their health decisions or their health and well-being decisions. Free will, they were making their own decisions. So the responsibility wasn't quite on me. That's how I feel that it differs between an animal and a and losing a person. So thank you for that because I think people will get great comfort knowing that they haven't gone anywhere.

unknown 21:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

And that you haven't lost them and they aren't wandering the ethers by themselves. They're actually at a big reunion of a lot of loved ones, especially in their soul group. So you should feel grief for yourself not having gone to the party, that you're still here. So stop grieving and think about them having a wonderful time because they are, you know, streamers, balloons, the works. So, you know, I think I think hopefully that I love that.

SPEAKER_04 22:21

I love that imagery.

unknown 22:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

It often said to people, don't feel bad when you have to assist them to the other side because they're going on a cruise to the Caribbean and you didn't buy yourself a ticket. So feel sorry for yourself that you're not going on the holiday. They are, and you're doing the best you can for them. So and they go, Oh wow, I didn't think of it that way. It it often helps. It's a good analogy, I think. I like that. So look, Jenny, it's been absolutely wonderful. I've loved chatting to you. I love your energy. I just, you know, I love everything about you. If people want to find you, how can they do that?

SPEAKER_04 23:05

Well, I do have um the a the Age of a Spider Monkey is a Facebook page that you can find. And then I'm on uh Facebook as well under my um full name. Uh if you look at the URL, it's like jenny jn and I dot elizabeth.taylor. And I would I would love to connect on Facebook with anyone who would like to connect. I need more reincarnation stories, and I know I know everybody's experiencing this that we've we've experienced. And so send me the stories.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

I'll put I'll put them in my book. We would totally love to help you with that, and we have probably a lot of reincarnation stories, so uh we can put it out to ours as well. But I'm sure a lot of people will want to join you on Facebook. So we will have uh, and of course, your book is at Amazon as as well under you know Jeannie K Bailey. We will have all of those details in this episode's notes, so all of those links and all of that information will be there for everyone to find you because I know they're going to want to. And I would love to say to everybody else that we are certainly going to be inviting Jenny back to discuss these subjects in greater detail and so much more. So we look forward to that. So thank you so much, Jenny. I can't I thank you for your time, for your energy, for your effort, everything. Thank you for your life's work and what you're doing for the animals. Um, thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

And all the same to you. I've just has been such a great pleasure to get to know you and to be a part of this. Thank you. Thank you, Jenny.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

What a beautiful conversation. Thank you so much to Jenny E. Taylor for sharing her heart, her wisdom, and those powerful insights into the spiritual lives of animals. It's such a wonderful reminder that animals are not separate from us. They're companions on our soul's journey, teaching us love, patience, and connection every single day. If you'd like to learn more about Jenny's work or explore her book, The Age of a Spider Monkey, you'll find the links in our show notes.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

We're in a desert sandstorm with a camel. If you could help us get out of the podcasting desert and into the sparkling oasis of podcasting popularity of downloads, by tapping the downloads button or a subscribe, that would be lots of help. That was the camel. Also thanking you. But up next, what does the plant think? You may think they're silent, but are they really?

SPEAKER_03 25:41

I want to share something truly magical for anyone who loves plants or anyone curious about the hidden intelligence of nature. I'm talking about bamboo M and ginkgo, instruments from music of the plants that let you literally hear your plants speak. And I don't mean music you play to the plant. These devices actually listen to the plant. Here's how it works The device measures the tiny electrical impulses flowing between a plant's leaves and their roots. Those impulses are then converted into sound through a built-in synthesizer. What comes out is the plant's own expression. You're hearing music created by the plant itself, its rhythms, its dynamics, its personality. And here's the part that always fascinates me. At first, the plant doesn't even realize it's playing. It's just sending its natural impulses. But over time, it begins to experiment by trying different notes, changing rhythms, exploring the sounds that it can make. It's almost like the plant is learning to compose right before your eyes. These devices have a long history. They were developed through the work of the Demon Her community in Italy, who started in the 1970s exploring ways to understand plant intelligence through electrical signals. Over decades of research, they refined technology that could make these signals audible, turning invisible life forces into something we can experience and even respond to. The ginkgo is simple, elegant and ready to use. Perfect if you want to start listening to your plant right away. Plug in and listen. The Bamboam is more advanced, offering full control over scales, tones, frequencies, and musical effects. Still easy to use. But both are designed to reveal the plant's own voice in a way that's intuitive, immersive, and magical. I actually have one here with me. I've attached it to my beautiful peace lily plant, Arielle, and I would love you to hear what she wants to express to you. This music is her, her personality, and the beauty of what is within her. If you're curious about plant consciousness, the hidden intelligence of nature, or just want to experience something completely new and magical, these instruments are definitely a doorway. The Bamboo M and Ginkgo let your plants tell their story in their own language, their own music. Check out Bamboo M and Ginkgo today and discover the incredible living music that's been there all along, just waiting for us to listen. Approved by Ariel and very much me. Next up, Animal News with Trisha and Donna. Dana, guess what we're talking about today? The amazement of crows, right? I know, I know. Look, I love crows, and I've been talking about crows for years, but there's actually been some research and some things on the news and things coming up around the world. And I want to discuss those because, as you know, you know, we always love to discuss what somebody's researched, and then we ask the animals and we see how it tallies up, right? But this particular thing I want to talk about. Now, I'm just reading the article because I just want to get this right, but this is from 2002. So this is quite an old article, but I just want to read it because it's got relevance. Now, Betty the crow. Somebody named this crow Betty. Anyway, there's nothing wrong with Betty. So scientists were viewing Betty and they were watching her behaviour. And the big excitement came when she got a bit of wire in her enclosure and she used another object in the cage to bend the wire. Wow. And then she used that to hook a little pack of meat from down a tube, right? Down a tube. Well, the scientists were all over the shop. You know, they were saying, Oh my god, did you see that? She just went, How am I going to solve this problem? And, you know. Yeah. Now, I just have to tell you how this article went. This all became deflated because they later found out. I just can't wait for you to hear this. They later found out that certain crows, types of crows, you know, breeds of crows, so, you know, like the crows from New Caledonia have been able to bend things to utilize as a tool, as just part of their bread. They've been doing it for ages. They use it for foraging.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Okay. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 31:05

So now it's like, well, they're not genius after all. Um, you know, Betty was just one of those crows, so she was doing it like as part of her group and all this. I just want to say, Donna, I know that there's going to be scientific ways of looking at it. She still bent something. Yeah. Utilised that to get something else.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

She medically worked it out.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

Yeah. Well, well, even if she didn't like if it's in her genes or that's what they do, or that's how the scientists are looking at it. I just think it's a really bad way of looking at it.

unknown 31:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

They were so excited when she did it. The actual art of using tools for crows is amazing anyway. Now, I we've got to give the credit where credit's due. It's it was a research of a long time ago, and they would have discovered so many things by and which they have, and I've got more. I've got more. Oh, yeah, I know, right? So, anyway, that's Betty. Betty would be elated with what we're going to say next, right? Because Betty will go, oh, finally, finally, there's somebody who recognises our intelligence. Anyway, so there was this other researcher, and she went to a conference. I'm just going to tell you some of the evidence uh that they found. This researcher had impeccable credentials for animal behavior from an institute and all of this sort of thing. So there's always credibility. Anyway, let's get down to the evidence, right? She presented that a crow's brain size in relation to body mass, right, is equal to that of great apes and dolphins. And only, and only slightly lower than humans. Now, this is not just their brain size, but cognitive abilities as well. They are on a par with those of the great apes. Just saying. In fact, they are considered by some researchers to be among the most intelligent of all animals. Now, you and I have known this and all this, but you know, just before I go on with more research, because we need to talk about this, intelligence. So the way humans govern intelligence is one thing. How they get the IQ, meaning it has human parameters.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

I just want to bring one thing up because we're talking about crows, right? I I okay, I'm just gonna put this out there. Birds can fly. Yes, of course. They can fly, Donna. Right? Now, these birds that can fly, we've had to wait how many years to construct planes, and they were pretty primitive in the early stages, and now we've got these big planes, but we have to pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars for these planes and to go from A to B, they just flap their wings and go. And a lot of birds can fly thousands and thousands of kilometers now.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

What do the humans say about that? Yeah. Unless you're a myth like Superman, right? So what I'm saying is, do you not find flying remarkable?

SPEAKER_01 34:18

It is absolutely. It'd be a dream to be able to fly.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

So it just depends how humans, everything's based on what we do, and you know, because we've got an opposable thumb. So the fact that we don't know yet, but I'm just saying that a crow can't pick up something like a gun and shoot it. Wow, what a great achievement. Um, that that they're not as they're not as great as us or intelligent, or you know, as nimble, or as this or that, whatever the the scientists want to put. But we have to credit to me each being on its own merit. In fact, because they're considered some of the most intelligent beings, how can that be? Because you would have heard this many, many times that aren't mammals the most highly evolved, most intelligent creatures on the planet, right? So they're saying we used the saying bird brain because we measured the brains of birds using our using ours as the reference point.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Yes, that's what we're saying. That's what I'm saying, right? Yep.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Yeah. It's all based on us, right? Our human-oriented perspective has led us astray, according to the new research. But the sharp intelligence of Corvids and Corvids are magpies and crows.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

So we've learned something today, in case, you know, people listening to this haven't heard of that. Yeah, I think so. The sharp intelligence of Corvids arises despite the fact that their brains are built in a way that is fundamentally different from those of mammals. They use a portion of the brain that has no direct counterpart to humans. Parts that we discounted. Yeah, now we discounted this because they didn't fit the location of intelligence in the human brain.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Oh, geez, we always do stuff that up, don't we?

SPEAKER_03 36:09

I know, right? We that's why we have to look at different parameters. I'm so grateful for this new research. It says here that the evidence of the intelligence of crows, magpies, and other members of the Corbett family are plentiful. So the Corvers have been recorded to recall their food's hiding place to up to nine months.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Now, can I just say, Donna, last Tuesday, 10 a.m., what were you doing? I can't remember what I was doing last Tuesday at 10 a.m. I had to really think about that for a moment. Working. Okay, we were working.

SPEAKER_03 36:43

So let's not govern, let's not govern uh memory or navigation or anything or anything to do with that to humans because something is going to go horribly wrong with that. Now, these birds carefully bury that these thousands of these berries, right? They they bury them for safekeeping over 200 square miles and over the next, yeah, and over the next eight months, they can they can recover 90% of them. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Now, urban living crows, we have to talk about this, Donna, because we've got some stories about this. Now, urban living crows have learned to use road traffic for cracking cracking tough nuts.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

Now, on a university campus, right, in Japan, crows and humans line up patiently, waiting for the traffic to halt. When the lights change, the birds hop in front of the cars and place walnuts, which they picked from the adjoining trees and put them on the road. After the lights turn green again, the birds fly away and vehicles drive over the nuts, cracking them open.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Wow, like how can you not how can you not like go in be in awe of that intelligence, honestly? How can you not? Such an amazing I can't even if I the words to how amazing these crows are. How incredibly intelligent is that? It and that that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

Longer the days past Betty, you know. Yes. So the birds wait patiently with human pedestrians for a red light before retrieving their prize. If the cars miss the nuts, the birds sometimes hop back and put them somewhere else on the road. Oh my, anyway, I I I am I'm speechless, right? So, or they sit on electricity wires and drop them in front of vehicles. Just saying. Crows have shown remarkable innovative tool making abilities even beyond those of chimpanzees.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

How incredible. I'm not surprised. Really not surprised.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

And and honestly, on another note, we will discuss this at some time.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

But um we will discuss it because there has been also research about a goldfish who everybody thinks is, you know, totally without intelligence and has the attention span of two seconds or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

I always think that. I always assume that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

Yeah, but we know differently because we've spoken to goldfish. Goldfish are so innovative and they're so intelligent.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:19

But they have done uh research where they've actually retrieved food and things quicker than chimpanzees by going having to go through opening something, going through a maze, pushing something open. They've done it quicker than a chimpanzee. Now, if 98% of the DNA is the same as ours from a chimpanzee and they can't do it and crows can, okay. I'm just gonna leave that there for all of you to think about. Now, can we come back to the cracking of the nuts? Now, Dana, as you know, my previous house had a dark roof and had and had some resident crows. Incredible. Right. And I remember talking to these crows and saying, Look, I'm very privileged that you live on my roof and you locked my house and everything, but but why is that? And they said, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, you're friendly, you are acknowledging us as beings and we are safe with you.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

Right?

SPEAKER_03 40:13

That's a that's a very big thing. Second thing is your roof colour suits us because we get very dark colored berries and we put them on your roof and they roll down. They showed me the vision of it rolling down and sitting in the gutter, and sometimes the gutter has a little bit of water in it and it softens these nut, nutty berry things. So incredible. Right? It it softens them to eat them. Now, a few days I thought about that. They showed me the picture of what it these sort of nuts or hard berries look like.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:45

And they're like a seed. And anyway, about a few days later, I'm walking across my backyard, minding my own business, by the way, and all of a sudden I get hit in the head with something, and I went, ow, it was really hard. And I looked down and it was this black, round nutberry thing. Oh my goodness. It looks exactly the same as what I was showing. Yeah. And then I looked up and the crows said, See? That's what we're talking about. And I went, Yeah, but can you next time? And they said, Oh, we had to make you aware. Yeah, great, great. The other thing I've seen, and you might have seen this, I've actually seen crows lining up, not putting nuts on the road, but lining up with people to cross at a crosswalk.

unknown 41:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

They stand just behind the people. Have you seen them? And they wait for the cars to stop, and then the people make the cars stop and then they all walk across together.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Yes, I have. I have seen them crossing the road. I mean, in fact, recently I've seen them in my area when we're driving around the corner in the streets and they walk across the road, and I wait, obviously, for them to give them a chance, and they stand and they like to stare and just look at you and observe, and they go, Well, if you can take your time, why can't I take my time? I'm like, you know what? Absolutely true. And then off he goes back to the other side. It's so incredible to see exactly that intelligence in action. It's just amazing, isn't it? I know.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

You know, you know the other research they've done. We don't need all this research because we see it, but we love we love when the human population finally work it out. We get all excited because we've been trying to tell people this for so long. Now, crows also work in teams, they have teamwork, there's other amazing things they do. I've seen them work in teamwork on certain days. There, all these crows would congregate in my neighborhood. Like I'm I'm talking 20 crows, 30 crows.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

Rooftops. It looked like Alfred Hitchcock's the birds. I did get worried, actually. And I went, no, no, they won't get me. They'll love me, they love me. Um, anyway, all the birds, this this used to happen quite a lot. And finally I asked the crows, and the crows said, Yes, because it is when uh, you know, we put our bins out. They noticed we put our bins out. And I said, Yeah, but why are you all congregating here? I mean, everybody's got their bins out for, you know, streets and streets and streets. And they said, Yes, but your neighbor always puts out a lot of bread and a couple of other titbits. They they they put out particular Yeah, yeah. So they all worked as a team where they flew over, one held the bin, one scooped up the packet, pulled it out. Honestly, because they told me, I then observed. And then they said, these particular crows that were living on my roof said, then we come back here to eat our bread, and they were they were sitting on the landing eating the bread. And there were slices and slices, and lots of these birds had it. I fascinated.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

It's so incredible to witness it. So incredible to witness their intelligence and to witness the communication happening in action, too. It's just incredible.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

I d I don't know about everybody else because we We've got, you know, a lot of audience here. Yeah. But do you not find this fascinating to hear their view? To hear why they're actually doing things? So they're so that they don't have to have this assumption made about them or I'm assuming this or this is what crows do. No. Those particular crows were doing this specific thing. There weren't other crows. I mean, I'm sure there's other crows on some other dark roofs, but not in my street or not in a couple of streets. So these were specific crows and they were talking to me. You can talk to any animal, any insect, anywhere. And don't get me started because we will be talking about all of the natural world, including the plant kingdom. Anyway, we'll go there later. But right now we're discussing the crows. Okay, so I'm just reading a bit in this in this article that says that they also move their food around between hiding places to avoid thievery. Well, because they're all smart, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:59

That's the best one. That is the best thing I've heard.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

Tell me that another crow couldn't find a hiding case.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Absolutely. They'd be sitting there watching his mate over on this side, going, Oh, okay, he's got something good. He keeps going back there. I'm going to go over there and check it out.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

Yeah, and then absolutely Yeah, because they use their own experience of having been a thief to protect the behaviour of a pilferer. And they can determine the best course to protect their caches.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

That's fantastic. Absolutely fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 45:33

I love it. I love it. This is such a great article. I'm just seeing if there's anything else, uh, because they demonstrate many of the intellectual abilities we associate with human thinking, but without language. But of course, we have a silent language, so we they actually do have some language. Um, this suggests that many of our intellectual abilities, which we assumed we need language for, we don't. Correct, because telepathic language is very different to spoken language. That opens a window into understanding our own thinking in a different way. Well, I just think animals are the gateway to everything for intelligence, for us to think about ourselves, because a lot of nature is actually reflecting what we're doing. You know, it's really, really amazing. We could go on and on and on because they're intensely social with a strong sense of community. Uh both parents look after the chicks. See?

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

I like that. Guys don't get out of it. Co-parents are going on. Good. Yeah, they build nests together, darling. They build nests together, and the male will fill the can I can I just repeat this? Yep. And the male will feed the female as she sits patiently on her precious eggs.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Good, it's good to see he's doing his job.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

Yeah, fan me and peel me a grape. Okay. Um, so it also says that young cov Corvids play elaborate social games similar to King of the Mountain and follow the leader. They manipulate, pass, and balance sticks and show um what certainly looks like joy as they slide down smooth surfaces and things. We've seen them all on um Instagram and Facebook and how they get little flat things and they go down the snow and the ice and they have a really good time. I always associate fun with crows. I used to call out to the crows and they'll answer you back, even in their own calling voices. Like, you know, the way they they they I'm not gonna do it for you now because everybody will tune out. Um, but I actually do it and the crows will answer. They're really, really socially.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

They really do.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

But it says here they have a sense of self-recognizing themselves in a mirror, and you know that only few animals can do that. Um, and some of them just don't want to, by the way, and we'll get into that at some stage. Um, because they're not they're just not self-loving like we are, you know, like we have to ego and anyway. Um you know, that we have to see ourselves all the time. They they have been reported to recognize each other as individuals and call one another by name.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Oh wow. Now that's cool. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

This just gets better and better.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Validation.

SPEAKER_03 48:06

Well, we we know all this because we we can ask them, but this is actual research. There's so much to this, and if if you can't say that there's so much intelligence around that, that's not just something they've learned and something they do, it's who they are, it's who they are as individuals. And there are so many things more about crows, and I have a feeling they're also going to be another subject of conversation right here, right now, on this show, because they are incredible. And you know what? Call it out when it's true. Humans can be intelligent too, but then sometimes we pale into insignificance when it comes to animals.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

Oh, absolutely, we do.

SPEAKER_03 48:50

So here's the crows. And as always, thank you for tuning in to Animal Talk. Don't forget to follow, share, and join us next time as we continue to give a voice to the animals and to the deeper wisdom of the entire natural world.