What Your Horse's Body Is really Saying

Episode Description 🐾
 In this powerful continuation of Animal Talk with Trisha McCagh, Trisha is joined again by veterinarian and equine biomechanics expert Dr Raquel Butler to explore the deep connection between a horse’s body, behaviour, and emotional state.

This episode unpacks how pain, posture, and compensation patterns often sit at the root of behavioural challenges in horses. From “lazy” or “naughty” labels to bucking, rushing, and resistance, Raquel explains how many of these responses are actually the horse’s way of communicating discomfort or imbalance.

Together, Trisha and Raquel explore how true healing comes from observation, patience, correct rehabilitation, and relationship-based horsemanship. They also highlight the importance of mental stimulation, play, and partnership in supporting a horse’s physical recovery and emotional wellbeing.

The conversation deepens into saddle fit, training mistakes, rehabilitation timelines, and the powerful role of intuition when working with horses and bodywork practitioners.

Key Takeaways 🐾
 • Behaviour is communication — not defiance
 • Pain and posture are often the hidden drivers of resistance
 • Small, consistent rehabilitation work creates faster long-term change
 • Horses show improvement daily when you learn what to look for
 • Relationship and trust are central to physical and emotional recovery
 • Equipment should never replace understanding the root cause
 • Horses need both structured rehab and joyful, playful engagement
 • Intuition plays a powerful role in reading what a horse is really saying
 • A listening, two-way relationship transforms everything

Episode Chapters ⏱️
 00:00 – Welcome to Part 2 with Dr Raquel Butler
 00:37 – Behavioural issues vs biomechanical causes
 01:50 – Pain, posture, and emotional response in horses
 03:50 – How to recognise true improvement vs compensation
 06:52 – Relationship, trust, and two-way communication
 08:27 – Biggest mistakes in horse rehabilitation
 10:26 – Timelines: how quickly change can happen
 12:38 – Why small improvements matter most
 14:48 – Bodywork, rehab, and working together between sessions
 16:18 – Saddle fit and equipment as a major influence
 18:16 – Tack, pressure, and the “why” behind gear choices
 20:27 – Intuition and reading the horse
 24:07 – Course structure: equine functional posture training
 27:44 – Relationship, riding, and redefining partnership
 31:21 – Emotional awareness and intuition in bodywork
 33:42 – When horses communicate “enough”
 37:31 – Connection, gratitude, and deep partnership
 39:12 – Where to find Dr Raquel Butler

🐾 Animal News
 In this week’s animal news, Dana shares the heartwarming story of Brucie the Brahmin Bull in Albany, Western Australia — a gentle giant who is changing perceptions of what cattle can be in human spaces.

Brucie enjoys beach walks, café visits, and town outings with his human companion Tom, becoming a local ambassador for kindness, calm presence, and cross-species connection. Rather than being seen through fear or stereotype, Brucie is embraced by the community for his gentle nature and expressive, curious personality.

Trisha and Dana explore how Brucie challenges assumptions about animals and lifestyle boundaries, highlighting a bigger message: when we look beyond appearance, we find individuality, intelligence, and relationship potential in every being.

👤 About the Guest
 Dr Raquel Butler is a veterinarian, equine biomechanics specialist, and educator dedicated to improving horse welfare through posture-based rehabilitation. Her work focuses on the connection between physical structure, movement, behaviour, and emotional wellbeing in horses.

Through her online programs and courses, Raquel teaches horse owners, bodyworkers, and professionals how to assess posture, improve movement quality, and build stronger, more compassionate relationships with horses through functional, evidence-informed techniques.

https://www.integratedvettherapeutics.com/

Want to Understand Your Animal Better?
If this episode has inspired you to connect more deeply with your animal, Pet Talk is the perfect place to begin.

Join hundreds of animal lovers who have discovered a whole new way of connecting with their animals.

Find out more here: https://institute.animaltalk.com.au/courses/pet-talk-program/

🎧 Listen, Share & Stay Connected
 If this episode resonated with you, please follow, subscribe, and leave a review on your favourite podcast platform. Share this conversation with someone who loves horses and wants to better understand what their animals are truly communicating.

Hashtags
 #AnimalTalk #TrishaMcCagh #HorseBiomechanics #EquineWelfare #HorseBehaviour #EquineRehabilitation #AnimalCommunication #HorseHealth #EquineTherapy #HolisticHorsemanship #HorseConnection #AnimalWisdom #IntuitiveHorsemanship #AnimalWellbeing #HorseLovers

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Dr. Raquel Butler. In this episode, we dive deeper into the connection between pain, posture, and body language, and how learning to read these signals can help you better understand your horse. We also talk about the importance of positive mental stimulation and why doing fun, engaging activities with your horse can strengthen your partnership and build trust. But first, we begin by exploring how a horse's behaviour and emotional state can also play a major role in how they move and respond to the world around them. Let's continue the conversation. How often do behavioral issues turn out to be biomechanical problems?

SPEAKER_06 0:46

A lot. So I I guess I'm always amazed but how the behavior changes as horses become more posturally balanced. And so whether whether it was a definite connection, you know, like the pain was causing the behavior, maybe not, maybe it was the stability or the lack of balance or you know, something else that was influencing them that made them not feel safe and and in control of their body. But it's amazing how in in the course, like I don't I don't say to them at the start, like your horse's behavior is gonna change, or we're gonna change that, or whatever. But once the horse starts to get more control of their body, feel safer in their in their being, uh, have more stability, then all of a sudden they're calmer, they're more relaxed, they're not spooking anymore, they're more willing to move forward. You know, like lazy horses get a really bad rap that they're just so lazy. But when I feel their body, I'm like, geez, no wonder. It feels like a block of concrete. Like, no wonder you can't move. Or, you know, the horse that's rushing and pulling all the time, and their their balance is just forward all the time, like they actually can't stop themselves. Um, the horse that's kicking out with one leg every time the farrier trims them, usually they've got some pain in there. There's so many of those behaviors.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Or that or the or they want to get the person off, not because they don't like the person, but they're in so much pain that they just have a reaction. Yeah. Or they that's the only way they can relieve the pressure. It's the only way. I mean, if you had a bad back and somebody jumped on your back for a piggyback, you'd be like, off you go. That's what I'd be doing. Flip flip you off because especially because the horse doesn't know whether you know, well, it depends. We'll we might talk about that later. But it the point is a lot of the time the horse feels gagged.

unknown 2:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

That you're saying things and doing things. I'm sorry, I'm gonna just put this out there that are totally untrue. And if we had to deal with that as humans, boy, there'd be defamation of character, there'd be all sorts of things going on because people don't like to be gagged, they don't want to have things said about them that are untrue. And I'm sorry, when they say a dangerous horse, they didn't come out of the womb dangerous. There was situations and circumstances that led to that. There has been a reason behind it. Same with an aggressive dog, same with a cat, you know, whatever, whatever's going on, there's there's reason. So I'm loving this information because I think this is the key to solving so many of those. When you've got pain, you're going to react. I I would too. And how do you tell the difference between a horse that's genuinely improving versus simply better compensation? I know that you'll be able to tell that, but this is also for people looking at their horse.

SPEAKER_06 3:53

Yeah, that's a that's a good question. So a horse that's just that's actually improving or just compensating, I think I see it a lot in their face um and their expression. So a horse that's actually improving, they'll tend to get more into like more interactive with you, more communicative, like they'll actually start to give more back in terms of you know, like they'll be enthusiasm.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yeah. Yeah. Enthusiasm.

SPEAKER_06 4:25

They'll have more enthusiasm, but sometimes it's also just communication, like they'll just start to let them know that something is m m not as comfortable as what the owner thought it was, you know. They'll start to give them more feedback because now they know that they're listening. You'll also see it in yeah, their facial expressions. So generally, like the face will soften. Uh, I notice like with my mare, I've had a lot of challenges with her. She's young and she's had a lot of injuries. And with the young mayor, I I'm always questioning like, is it training or is it physical? But then every time that her physical body looks better, her behavior improves like, you know, significantly. And so she's always proving to me that it's pain, posture, and body. And so when she's improving, like her ears are more forward, her face is more soft, her posture is better. So you can look at the physical aspects of their posture, and that's where the more you empower yourself with those observation skills, then the more you're going to be able to help your horse and recognize when they're struggling and and when they're going well. And a horse is just compensating. This is also comes down to your observation because you will see more brace in their body somewhere. You might see more brace in certain situations, or when you ask them to do certain things, or their facial expression changes when you're doing a certain exercise, like their mouth gets tighter or their eyes get tighter or their ears go back a little bit, or you know, they don't they're just not engaged with you. Like I love how jelly, especially, you know, when I feed him, he always stops eating his feed for a second and just turns and says, Hey, hi, and like he doesn't have to do that. I'm not giving him anything. I just go up and say, Hey, you can just acknowledge him. So, and he is very inquisitive and curious, and he to me, he's a partner in what I do and not I'm not just doing it to him. So there's always a conversation happening, but horses have to, which you would know through your work, they don't always expect the conversation. So as you kind of change and it becomes a conversation, then they're kind of like, oh, okay, like you're listening to me. Well, actually, I have some things to say.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Well, yeah, but it's it's like if you want a good result, you have to be prepared to put in the work. And I'm talking this to the people.

unknown 7:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

The more you find out about your horse and the more you put in. But yes, in my work, more and more and more over the years, because look, majority of horses don't really want to be ridden and they don't really want to do half the stuff we want them to do. I'm I'm just I'm putting that out there because it's a fact, right? But will they work with you? Yes. But a relationship, partnership, dual respect, and they want time for other things. They don't want their only interaction to be about that all of the time. They want some fun stuff, they want some other stuff. Like relationship, think about your relationship with another person. If you have a colleague at work, that's very different to your best friend.

SPEAKER_06 7:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Right? They don't want to just be a colleague at work that has no interest in them. They want more than that. Especially as look, they might have another horse, but some horses love the human aspect, some love the horse aspect, and some are halfway in between. So it depends on the individual. But I can tell you now that the majority of problems, once we work out the physical, but a majority of refusal or down to actually biting or injuring that person, it's down to the relationship. So that's a very important part as well. That if we look at the two sides, hey, you and I could possibly um solve the problems of the horse world. So what are the biggest mistakes that people make when rehabbing a horse? Do you think?

SPEAKER_06 8:36

Well, there's a few. I think one thing is um well the my brain's like all the things. Um one of them is that they generally ask for too much too soon, and so they don't go slow enough, and they don't get the quality before they increase the quantity. And, you know, if you can do rehab well in a shorter period of time and have it with more quality, you do not need the quantity. And unless you're getting them cardiovascular fit, but if you're rehabbing an injury, generally it's quality over quantity, and most people go the opposite way. The other one is that um you've got to record, and so you know, you don't you forget where you came from, and so they don't realise how much they've improved and they have a setback and then they lose hope and then the wheels fall off. But you if you've had, you know, photos, a diagnosis, videos, and you've got something or a diary, you've got something that you can refer back to and go, Oh yeah, I forgot that this was a problem and they couldn't do this exercise before, and now we can do that for 10 minutes, and the wheels haven't completely fallen off. So that's another one is like you know, keeping a progress, measuring your progress.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Expectation. And your expectations Yeah, keep it, keep it real, keep it real. Because what I wanted to ask you was look, I I guess it's how long's a piece of string. I don't know whether you can estimate a time at how long getting their posture fixed is going to take or where you'll start to see signs of improvement. If you're doing it well and you're giving the time and you're doing it to its maximum, you know, are we talking weeks, months? I know it depends on the horse, but just roughly will you see something in a couple of weeks?

SPEAKER_06 10:35

Yeah, you will see something in a day if you're doing the right exercises. Um, but the other place that people fall off is that they get 80% of the way there and they stop. And and we do it this as well, right? Like we're like, well, I feel pretty good. Yeah, I don't need to go to the gym today, or I don't need to do my rehab today. Oh, and then all of a sudden a week's gone by, two weeks have gone by, oops, now I'm re-injured. Um, that happens a lot in rehab in general, you know. So we just don't finish the program. And but generally, if you're doing the right exercises, like obviously if there's an injury, it's still a healing time frame for the tissue. So depending what tissue has been damaged, it's going to have an impact on the time frame. But when I'm working from a postural perspective, we're seeing changes the next day. Like, and that's where you've got to be able to be observant because if you're not looking for those changes, you're not going to see them. And I've had, especially when I was working a lot with dogs, people would come in and say, I'm like, Oh, how's the dog going? You know, any improvements? They'd be like, No, no, not really. And then I'd say, Oh, what about um getting off the couch? Oh, yeah, like that's not a problem. I'm like, well, it was last week. You know, what about willingness to go for a walk or something? Oh yeah, it's one square for a walk every day. So you don't realize that there are little changes happening, but if you're observing for them, you know, like people in the course, they will say, We've just changed the feeding position, that's it. And they're like, Oh, my horse's already, like three days later, I just saw him standing square in the paddock. You know? So when you do the right type of work, you will see improvements every single day. Like with my young horse, I see when I get it right, I see improvement every single day. She can do the exercise a couple more steps. I'm not asking for 10 more minutes. I'm asking for a couple more steps in quality. But if I'm looking for like two more quality steps, I'm like, oh my God, you can do those two steps today. And then you tell them, that was so good. And they're like, mm-hmm, I know.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Well, they do need encouragement, just like us. Very good, very good point, Raquel, because that's what we're missing also. We're we're wanting this, we're wanting that, but we forget about their input that they need. They need that encouragement. Because sometimes I've had animals say to me, I don't know what they want me to do. They're dumbfounded because it's either too much, too. Yeah, yeah. And the other point I wanted to make, which is really interesting, because we know there are other good modalities, bodywork and uh, you know, whether bowing or or something else. And what I noticed in when I had uh even my dogs and cats, so I had a um an amazing holistic vet come around and she would do acupuncture. You know, she'd test the pulse points and you know the the qi and all of that sort of stuff. And after she did some acupuncture, she would do some laser and she said, This is great. And and I know that this is really the probably the your principles, but this is great and this will help your animals. But in between now, yes, and three weeks or four weeks, I want you to go on Chinese herbs, number one, so it nourishes the body in the same way as what I've just done, because I'll prescribe them the same way. Second thing, I need you to do some rehab work. So I need you to stretch this out. I need you to because the more you do, the better or easier my my treatment will be, which means we'll get a continuous flow. Because you don't want to just have an input, she said, every three or four weeks, because it takes a long time. But in real time, every day we're getting some kind of um help help, she said, you'll see really big things. And I did, and that's really your principles, isn't it? That yes, I can show you this, or you can go to somebody that'll stretch that out or whatever. But if you're doing stuff, as you mentioned earlier, three, four times a week, you will see a big thing rather than, and I'm not I'm not saying about anything else, other than some people, and I know that my clients included will just get these bodyworkers out and then do nothing in between. Or the bodyworker, whatever they are, they don't give you rehabilitation stuff. They come for their visit and then that's it.

SPEAKER_06 15:01

And you just see the improvement because people who have regular bodywork who start doing stuff themselves, their bodyworkers will comment and say, Oh my god, like the horse is so much better than last time. And when your bodyworker comes out, you want them to be, you know, optimizing your horse, picking up on any little things, but also they should be looking for improvement every single time as well. And that comes down to what you do in between those sessions, and yeah, it makes such a difference, even if people can only do a few days, but they're doing specifically targeted exercises. It's insane how much difference that makes. Sometimes I go and I'm like, you know, uh, you're doing a great job. You don't really like I just come and check everything, but people who have empowered themselves to have those skills, they can manage their horses, and then when they do get the bodyworker out, they can just say, Oh, I noticed that I was having a little bit of trouble this week with flexion to the right or something and he hasn't been doing that. And I did my exercise, but I couldn't quite it didn't really fix it. And then I can just come in and be really specific and say, Oh yeah, here it is. But if I've got to adjust the whole body and it's got all this compensation, then I then um you're not getting the most value out of your bodywork session either.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

No, because you know as well as I do that if they continually did that, yeah, it would be smaller and smaller and smaller, and then it would be a smoother ride. But I want to bring into this equation ill-fitting equipment.

SPEAKER_03 16:33

Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

You know, let's we have to go there because it's a big part. Like they can be doing all that, you can be coming in, but then they put a saddle on, that's no good, or other equipment, you know, whether it's around the girth or they need cushioning underneath, because everyone all the horses have got different shaped backs, and you know. So, yeah, what what do you suggest with that well again?

SPEAKER_06 17:01

I think you need to empower yourself a little bit with some knowledge of how to assess basic saddle fit. It's not that difficult to, you know, assess the balance of a saddle, to take a video of yourself riding and have a look at how it's sitting you, to run your hands up underneath a saddle, like it's it's not that difficult. But if your horse is telling you it's uncomfortable, like it's putting its ears back when you do the girth up, or it's kicking or turning around to bite you, and you have to cross tie it, well, there's a problem. So you do just need to listen to your horse, especially from or or you go you get on and they move away and they don't want you to mount, then they're telling you it's uncomfortable when you mount me.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

For one reason or another. So don't ignore it and say, stop being naughty or just just comply. Listen, your horse tells you so many things. I just want to put that out there. Your horse is trying to, without communication, if you can't do what I do, yeah. They have to use other means and they will use those other means. I mean, there's obviously preventative exercises, and we've kind of gone through some of those. It's really about the uh cool down, the warm-up, that sort of thing. But your equine functional posture course, so that's where people can learn a lot of this themselves. Do they bring their horse? Is it a clinic?

SPEAKER_06 18:19

Yeah. Um, I just want to jump back to the tack for just one second because I also just want to say if you find yourself adding more things, like adding a nose band, adding a martingale, adding spurs, whips, whatever, then you need to address the underlying reason for that. Because the less gear that we're like we have, often the horses are much happier. Like I've ridden bridaless and bit less, and a lot of horses are more comfortable in that way. So if you're starting to add things like nose bands and and stuff like that, you need to ask the question why you need to do that, because we should not need to tie a horse's mouth closed with anything. They should have a comfortable soft mouth regardless. So ask the questions is it bit fit? Is it the horse uh you know, got they've got some physical issue? Is it bridal fit? Is it the way I'm riding them, what I'm asking them to do? Whatever.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

So Hallelujah! Hallelujah, thank you. Because that's the comments I've got from horses about the bits and other and spurs and all of this other stuff, because I'm telling you now, if you did that to a human, it would be classed as something else. But that the and and it's it can be done. You've done it. Yeah, a lot of um other people I've spoken to have done it, and they've just found such a difference in their horses, because everything we do with animals or people, stress both, it's got to be from two parties. There's got to be an agreement. It's not what I want you to do, it's what can we do together.

SPEAKER_06 20:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Because if it's not working for you, maybe we need to look at some different things. It's okay if you're just discovering this or learning this. Hey, that's not a problem. But now that you know, you can't unsee it and you can't unhear it.

SPEAKER_06 20:15

Yeah, and you're holding all that you're listening to that.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

And they and they will, and and actually, when I've been speaking to horses at the time, sometimes we've had a practitioner there and I'm translating what the horse is saying, they don't mince words. Yeah. You know, they they they they will talk about talk about these things and they are so honest. And we can adjust everything to that horse because your horse is trying to tell you you want them to be willing, you want them to do it. And you know what? A lot of horses absolutely adore their people and would love to do something with them, but it's a little bit one way. And as soon as we turn it two way, the whole door opens. Oh, yeah, yeah. Totally. Yeah. Now getting back to your course. Yeah, no, no, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_06 21:02

Yes, with the course, it's an online course, uh, it goes over seven weeks because there's an introductory week. But you I have some people who don't have a horse at the time, but they might be a bodyworker who's working on people's horses, and you learn a lot from other people's experiences throughout the course as well. And so, but generally you uh come with a horse, and each week we work through different exercises. So the first week we focus on assessment. So you're learning like how do I posturally assess my horse? What are some key things that I can look at to determine where my horse's posture is at, like their leg positions and their back shape and head and neck position, things like that. Then in week two, like we look at, well, now you want to feel your horse and palpate them. So, what are the key areas that there's commonly problems? And so there's little videos and you watch them and then you go out and palpate your horse. Let me know what you find. And then we have weekly QA sessions where you get one-on-one feedback from me because you post your videos, and then I say, look at this, feel this. You know, are the pieces of the puzzle adding up or not? And then we go into exercises. So we develop a feeding position plan for the horse to help them improve their posture while they're eating. So it doesn't take any time from you once it's set up. And that's creates a massive amount of change. Then we go in the next week, we look at how to correctly apply spinal mobilizations, or you might know them as carrot stretches, and how to make sure that you're doing that the most comfortable and functional way for your horse, not just going through the motions and doing them the way that you know someone said you should do them because sometimes some horses need a little extra support or help, or you need a little extra help to get in the right position. And then we look at taking that into motion. So, you know, helping your horse do just foundational movements like stepping the shoulder and stepping the hind limb and um lifting the base of their neck and thinking about their posture in motion. And so the last two weeks are kind of focused on taking that posture into motion. But you get webinars every week, you get a Q ⁇ A session every week, which sometimes there's four hours of that, depending how many participants are in the course. So you get to watch everyone else learning, which always the horses are so different. Uh and yeah, there's a like community, the community is always awesome, so supportive, they're always on the same page, they're really there to try to improve their knowledge for the horse. And you know, we now have a pretty amazing like community who've done level one and two, and they're in a community group and they all support each other, and it's um a really nice space to to be in. So yeah, you work with your horse each week, you go through the exercises, I give you feedback, you've put up your photos and videos, and um yeah, that's that's about it's a it's a hands-on amazement, you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

So you can go there and do it and get used to it and practice it and it to become part of you. And then when you go back, it's not something you just learned through a video. It sounds amazing, and it does take time for us to learn things, it takes time for us to register things because our habits were like that, and now we have to change into a new habit. And your horse is learning that what are you doing? Yes, what are you doing? You've never done that before. So your horse gets to have a fun time as well. And uh maybe I'll let you in on that. Maybe I need to attend one of these so that I can get amongst the horses and see what they all talk about. Yeah, that'll be good. Yeah, what was this? What was that session like for you? Yeah, well, you know, blah, blah, blah, or you know, at the start, like, geez.

SPEAKER_06 25:00

They uh they need to refine their skills a bit.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Yeah. Like if you if you do it and then somebody else does it, the horse does comment. I've heard it over and over again. Like, not in a bad way. They don't do it derogatory, they just go, oh, it felt very different when that person did it to my person.

SPEAKER_06 25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

I'm not sure if they were doing the same thing. It's a it's a very, they're very nice about it, but they do comment on it because it's being done to them.

SPEAKER_06 25:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

You know, so that's a that's a very interesting one. Um, so you must see not only the change in the horse, especially over that seven weeks, but you must see the change in the person, like the elation or something's working, or they found the answer, or something's clipped between the person and the horse, because now somehow we're in sync.

SPEAKER_06 25:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

They're helping me and I'm feeling better, especially, you know, six, seven weeks. Like, do you find that?

SPEAKER_06 26:00

Yeah, I think the biggest change in the people they go, gosh, I can't believe I didn't notice that before. Uh because now everything all of a sudden seems so obvious to them. And so that can be a little challenging at times because you know, they're like, Why didn't I see that before? But yeah, then they can go on and help other people, um, help other horses. They also do see an improvement in their relationship generally with the horse and their horse's willingness to try like different things as well. Like the the horse, yeah, it starts to be a little more interactive, like what we were talking about before when we're noticing improvements and and they and the owners just get a buzz out of it. They're like, oh, we're standing square, or um, you know, I noticed like a different posture today, and I noticed um he's never really stood in that position, or he's never really moved like that before. And so, yeah, it really improves that that relationship with their horse and their observation skills and also what they're getting out of just being with horses. It's not there's no riding in the course. And so um it really like improves their yeah, their their they some people are like, oh, you know, I really enjoy this. I don't feel like I don't actually care if I don't ride my horse anymore. And I know that's changed for me as a person because I was all about riding and now I just don't really care. Because if I have a ride, I want it to be really enjoyable for both of us. And if it's not enjoyable, then it's kind of a bit, you know, it's a bit deflating.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Whereas um well, you know, you you know if it's not, you know, it's it's it's like you've gone out on a date, one of you's having a great time wishing they were somewhere else. Well, it's it's not a nice feeling, and you know, you you don't have to be told. Yeah, you you can feel it, you can feel the lack of participation, yeah, and then you might do something else. It maybe, maybe it's because uh you love boating. Yeah. Like uh uh you get seasick and you just don't enjoy boating, but then they take you and do something else. You actually like the person, you sometimes just don't like the activity.

SPEAKER_06 28:21

Yeah, I'd like to share a story about that. I'll just like to share a story with Jelly because I've had him for a few years now. And there was one point when I hurt my back, and I was just doing the same thing every single day on the ground, postural stuff, but it was just the same. And one day he's like, didn't want to be caught, and he always was happy to be caught, and so I was like, oh, and he and I got the message, can we just like go for a ride or something? So like I just went for a ride and he was like, Yay, something different. So bored. But recently I started doing some liberty with him, and he has a lot of struggles with his canter because of his pelvic issues, lumbar issues, and his muscle disorder. And so I thought, okay, let's play it Liberty and see, you know. So obviously there's food involved and we're doing fun stuff, and he's very cheeky sometimes. But you know, I was like, Yeah, you're cantering. And it was like, oh yeah. And he got so excited about it that now he just he offers it to me without me asking him. And that used to be a really stressful experience for him. He used to get a lot of anxiety about cantering because it was just so challenging for his body. But doing it at liberty, like he's free to come back, but I'm not pushing him and ask him to keep cantering. And you know, then it became a game. And then when I asked him when we're online, he just offers it to me now. He never used to offer me a canter, and it was always I had to ask him to go into the canter. So sometimes he's like, I'm feeling good, like, can we do this today? And the other day I was like, No, no, it's too slippery. Please don't, please don't do it today. But you know, I love that finding something fun, and he, you know, I when I figured out that he loved Liberty, I was like, okay, so this is what I can do to break up the postural stuff and give him a break, but he's still working on that, but it's fun. And so for your horse, it might be that they enjoy doing the mobilizations, or they enjoy going for a walk down the road, or they enjoy um, I don't know, doing a like obstacles or something. So you've got to find, or like I had a pony that really loved going for a like a bridaless trail ride. So you've got to figure out what they love to do, because sometimes rehab and even you know improving posture can be difficult. Like when we first start exercising, it can be hard work and it uses their brain and i it it can be very fatiguing. And so we also want to break that up with like fun things like little games when they maybe have to go search for treats or you know, they can just go and look around the area or something, because yeah, like you said, they that positive mental stimulation will mean that then when you do the hard stuff, they're like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

You've got to have fun in it. It can't always be tedious. And each horse has a different personality where some are you're hurting my brain. You're hurting my brain. Like, can we have some yeah, some more fun because they're more cheeky and they actually that's their you know kind of love language? You know, it's it's it's a little bit more into that lightheartedness. And other, I've had other horses that are very meticulous, they they want to do it absolutely down for the letter and and think. So they're all different like us. What I was wondering though, when you're doing this work, because it's very physiological because you're trying to do muscles and stuff like that, how much do you feel, or if any, is intuitive?

SPEAKER_06 32:04

Uh I think it becomes more intuitive as you develop your skills, and I think that depends where you're at a little bit on the day as to how much you can be intuitive. Um and I think it also just depends on us quietening down and allowing that to come through. So, you know, there's some horses that I treat very intuitively, and then there's some horses that I treat very physically. It depends on a lot of different things. But as you develop, you know, I have some owners that are just super intuitive, you know, like I had one own owner the other day and she's like, I went out to the m one of my mayors and I I just followed where I felt that I should give her some treatment, you know, and I'm like, Yeah, it's amazing. You're you're naturally like you don't need bodywork training to help your horses because you're naturally intuitive. And you just you you trust that. And sometimes it's easier for non-bodyworkers to trust that because they don't have any expectation on them or of an outcome. But yeah, the more that we can be in touch with that intuitive side, but don't but don't you think you're from even what you've said, it's intuitively knowing where to treat.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

But I'm just feeling like you're very intuitive that you have a knowing about the personality of that horse or what that horse expects as to how much you can do. Yeah. And the reason I say this is that intuitive side brings success. I've actually had practitioners working on a horse and the horse said to me, and I said, Is that feeling good? Yes, I particularly liked the last area, so I'll tell the practitioner.

SPEAKER_06 33:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Then all of a sudden the horse said to me, I've actually had enough.

SPEAKER_06 33:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

I'm done. Yes. If if if that's all right. And so I said to the person, when you take the last, you know, what are you doing at? When you've done that last thing, can we just call it a day? Because the horse is at she went ahead and said, Oh, I just want to do one other thing. And I said, Yeah, I know you might, but the horse is letting us know because it wasn't my horse. So, and the person would have had to have spoken up, but this person decided to do one more thing.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

And soon as she started doing it, that horse started playing up and kicking up its back legs and rearing because you're not listening. Because I know that you're doing that just in the way you're describing, that it depends on the individual horse, its personality, its expectation. Because as you're working with it, it's not just what it's doing physically. You said, I can just tell from its face, it's not just its face, it's looking at you. Yes, it could have a facial expression. Oh, you've got an angry face, so why are you angry? But you know more than that. That's why I'm saying there's an intuitive side, and the more in intuitive you are with your horse, the more knowing you have and you can make it successful. Because I think the intuition side comes from you've spoken with such love and care of that animal because you want to create that for it. There's your intuition right there. Yeah, hearts open, horse's heart's open, horse can feel your intent. That horse knows wow, this person really wants to help me and is just here for me. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 35:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

I'm feeling a buzz from that. That horse is offering you that opportunity, saying, I'm gonna let you know exactly how I feel. Awesome stuff.

SPEAKER_06 35:42

So that's the um Stellion that I work with, and he's he's quite expressive. And um we've had to have a couple of conversations because you know, front legs up in the air are not ideal. But the intuit intuition part was the last time I saw him, I hadn't seen him for like six months because I was unwell. And he it was so interesting because I took his lead and he went, did a deep big deep breath, and then he put his head in, just tucked his head in and was like, I just got the you know message in my brain, like, oh, you're here, like I know that you see me. And I don't see him as a stallion who's been difficult. I see him as a stallion who's just a stallion, he's got testosterone and he doesn't know what to do with it, but like there's this horse underneath that you know is very intelligent and connected and all of those things, but it was, you know, just that moment between us. Like we've had many moments where I'm like, hey, don't do that, that's that's a little bit rude and uh dangerous, but you know, he just just learning to control his emotions because there's so much hormones going through. But yeah, just in that moment, like you I you can feel a lot from the individual horse. You can feel their appreciation, their gratitude. You you know, especially once they realize, oh, you're actually trying to listen to me, you know, like I will ask a question. Can you pick up your leg? I don't just go in and pick up their leg. So once they realize that, then then and they connect to you, then you kind of are really able to go into your intuition because they're with you in that moment, which is really nice.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

I'm loving that, and I'm loving that you can remember those moments because you knew that there was something special in them. You knew that there was an exchange, there was something that's what brings their memory to it and holds it very close, not only in our memory but in our hearts, because you know, that for me is is one of the most exciting moments that that intent is recognized between two individuals and honored. You know, it is honored, it's respected, it's loved. Look, I can't thank you enough for being here today, but before we do anything, if people want to find out more about your course uh or want to do your course or want to find more about you, how do they do that? Where can they go?

SPEAKER_06 38:13

Yeah, so my website is integratedvettherapeutics.com and I also have a Facebook page, Integrated Vet Therapeutics. Uh so there the I do have an Instagram, I think it's called Integrated Vet. I'm not not so good on Instagram. Um, but yeah, so Integrated Vet Therapeutics um is my website, so you can come and find me there. I've done lots of if you just Google my name, there's actually done a lot of podcasts and lots of uh different things over the time. So uh yeah, just kind of look out my name, you'll see lots of free things that you can actually access. Um, but yeah, I'd love I'd love for you to find my course because don't me too.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

I'm I'm so well, you're gonna get a lot of referrals from me. It's like I've been looking for exactly this because it's like answering so many of my questions, because as an animal communicator, we don't just communicate with animals, we solve problems. So when we are feeling medical intuitives or we're intuitively picking up these issues, we then have to refer and find a solution for that person. They're coming to you because they they have a problem that they need solved. And even if they're not in your area, can they still, like you're saying, there's podcasts, there's free stuff, you would have videos and stuff. Yeah, they can still, you've got a podcast as well. Um and and and what and what we'll do, what we'll do is don't worry if you didn't quite catch it all. You know, how do I find Dr. Raquel buttlock? Don't worry if you didn't catch it all. All of the links that Raquel has is going to be all in our show notes. You will be able to find her, cross-reference her, whatever needs to happen with her, you will find it in those notes. But thank you so much for your time, for your incentive, but you for you not just for insightfulness, but for your care and your love of horses. Thank you for that because they are indeed very special creatures.

SPEAKER_06 40:14

Yeah, thanks, Trisha, for having me on the podcast. It's been a great chat. So I look forward to meeting more of your listeners.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Absolutely, and I also look forward to having you back on the show and talking some more on this amazing subject. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you. What a powerful and insightful conversation with Dr. Raquel Butler. Her dedication to horse health and her commitment to transforming the way you think and integrate with your horse is world-class. And I hope this episode has given you practical tools and fresh perspective to support the horses in your life.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

The Florida Everglades at Night. A dark wilderness full of hunting glow-eyed alligators, snakes, owls, and mosquitoes. Help us out of the swampy, muddy puddle of podcast obscurity and into the daylight endazzlement of the fresh, rolling, grassy hills of podcast notability by downloading us. Takes a moment, but helps so much. But up next, what does the animal think?

SPEAKER_01 41:28

If you've been listening to our What Does the Animal Think segment, you've heard some incredible insights from animals themselves, their thoughts, feelings, perspectives, and the messages that they want their people to hear. And perhaps you found yourself wondering, what does my own animal think? What would they tell me if I could ask them? What are they trying to communicate every day? The truth is, you don't have to rely on someone else to find out. You can learn to communicate with your own animals. I'd love to introduce to you the Pet Talk program. Most people don't realize that all animals communicate through an ancient silent language, a language that humans naturally understood when they were born. Before we developed spoken words, we communicated intuitively through feelings, images, thoughts, and knowing. As we grew and learned verbal language, we simply forgot how to use this natural form of communication. The good news is that you can relearn it. The Pet Talk program is designed to help you reconnect with this innate ability and begin having genuine two-way conversations with your animals. Imagine understanding how your pet views their life, what they enjoy, what they dislike, and what they need to feel truly happy and fulfilled. Imagine discovering the deeper purpose behind your relationship together and strengthening the bond that you already share. You'll learn how to better understand your animal companions, support them through emotional and physical challenges, uncover the causes of behavioural issues, and gain valuable insights if they're unwell, injured, aging, or approaching the end of life. Many people tell me that the greatest gift is the peace of mind that comes from truly knowing how their animals feel and being able to support them in the way that their animal needs it the most. This program is completely online, allowing you to learn from the comfort of your own home and at your own pace.

SPEAKER_04 43:25

Hi, I'm Gemma. I learned so much about learning to trust myself and my intuition, um, going with my first initial thoughts and feelings, um, and I surprised myself at how accurate I was communicating with my animals and others. If you can only do one course in your life, then do this. It is totally life changing. You don't need any previous experience before, just a willingness, and you'll see for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

The PET Talk program will teach you how to listen. Visit the link in the show notes to learn more, view the full course outline. And enroll today. And don't forget to scroll down and discover the bonus course that's included with the program. Because the most important conversation that you may ever have could be waiting for you at the other end of a wagging tail, a gentle purr, or a pair of eyes looking back at you right now. Next up, Animal News with Trisha and Donna.

SPEAKER_05 44:25

Hey Tricia. So I can't wait to share this one with you. I found uh this particular story, beautiful animal. Actually, for enough, near your neck of the woods in Albany in southwestern Australia. Beautiful area. The beaches look amazing. But this particular animal caught my heart straight away. You would think that any animal that would get my heart would be in a big, beautiful, rugged thing. But he's absolutely gorgeous. And I really wanted to share this with you about Brucie the Brahmin Bull. Now, Brucie and his person Tom have been causing quite a slowdown in Albany. They've been creating a really beautiful, positive stereotype instead of Brahmin bulls. And we've seen him taking walks on the beach. Something we love to do, walks on the beach. He loves to go to town and share time with everybody there, sit at the local cafe, so to speak. And he's basically all round gentle giant to kind of raise more positivity around having other animals in your life other than, you know, your typical dogs and cats. Not discounting that, but how beautiful it would be and how different it would be to have a bull in your life. So I wanted to share this with you. And I think you you may all have had the photo. How gorgeous does he look? He's handsome.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

I mean, honestly, he's he's just gorgeous. So I I'm getting where because you know, when we connect with animals, uh as anyone does really, you're not just connecting with like looking at the animal, but there's energy coming, and there's just this this when when you look at him, he's so loving and he's just got this expression on his face, and oh, you know, I I hey, if he was a human, I reckon I'd go out with him.

SPEAKER_05 46:11

Exactly right. I couldn't even get the words out. That's exactly what I think of him.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

I didn't want to be creepy and say, even if he's not a human, I'll still go out with him. Because to some people that might go, oh, that's a bit weird. But you know what? I can be a bit weird, uh, and that's okay, you know. Uh why is it so unusual that a cow can't walk along the beach and spend time with people and go to a cafe and do whatever we do, right? So, yes, not even traditionally, instinctually, a cow wants to be out in a paddock with grass. That's normally what happens. And I want to go into that path. That's normally what happens. It's only because it's not usual, but is it because we haven't made it usual? That's my first like observation, right? What's interesting about Brucey is that he loves doing that. Like most of the bulls and cows, and we've seen a few, because remember we used to run horse clinics, Donna, and the bulls that we saw there, they were not interested in anything but the ladies, the cows. Anyway, so so this guy's really different. And maybe we need to ask him a few more questions, like what makes you different. But yeah, he's doing all this stuff. And look, I don't know what those people do on the beach and in the cafes, but they make him feel damned fantastic, right? Because he's saying, I know I'm handsome, I know I'm good looking. Like that's a an absolute no-brainer because I guess all the women flock around him is the vision he's giving me. And and also he does say he does know what a woman wants and how to do it because he's just really good that way, right? And he said that a lot of humans don't know what they want until they're shown it, and he seems to think he's it. So is that what you were looking for, Donna? Was that the approach you were looking for?

SPEAKER_05 48:15

Well, that's definitely what's been coming through from Booth Bruce. I thought we have to chat with him about this and how does he feel about going about and being with people and you know, doing things that, like you said, traditionally just we would never assume they would do. So that's exactly how I felt about him too. I think he's got that kind of, you know, he's got that charisma and that magnetism. Probably attracts a lot of ladies. But it's funny when I I connected with him as well, and he was so for his size, he's so gentle. He's so gentle, really peaceful. And he said to me he really likes showing, particularly little kids, when he sees them on the beach, that there's nothing to fear from size. There's nothing to fear from standing up and standing in your own size. And it was really, really nice to see. And he said he really enjoys them and their company and being able to, you know, be an ambassador for his own species too, of course. And but when he talks about the little dogs running around and don't know what to do with him when he's on the beach, especially if they've never seen a cow before or a bull before. And he he goes, he kind of gives me the image of like, are they all right? Is there something wrong with them? Why are they so uptight? They think they just need to relax. And it's just you can't help but laugh because his perspective is so unique. Where else are you gonna see that? Where are you gonna experience that?

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Well, he's got swagger, right? His personality, he just draws you in because he's interested in you. Wow. Because sometimes when you meet other humans, they're not very interested in you. And I'm talking about me personally. Um, and so you can tell the difference. But he's really interested. He does have that that thing about that fascination about humans because you know he likes them and he always gets a great greeting from them. And he said, I know I do get a few sideways looks, but that's their problem, right? It's it's really interesting. He's very confident in himself, he likes the way he looks, and he doesn't have any hang-ups about it. So I'm loving that about him already. But I'll take you back to a time with Maddie, my cat, uh, that I had a while ago. And, you know, Maddie was my teacher, she's everything to me. When she was 21, I've kind of just got this inkling, and you know, when you're an animal communicator, you know, is it their idea or yours? You never truly know. Because they can just pop that in there, that thought. Exactly. Um, you can you can often tell about food because it's either coming too far or it's a different time. And anyway, let's not go there. So anyway, I I did just this thing about taking her to the beach. So I just went, oh, I don't know. Do you take it? I don't think you can cat take a cat to the beach. See, this is a human thinking this. Because me personally, as a communicator, I just think everybody should be everywhere. But it it's sort of like, okay, I'll see how this works. So I decided to go early. So I went about 6 a.m., right, to my local beach. And I live near the beach. So anyway, I'm down at the local beach. And did Maddie have a lead? Of course not. I might, you know, no, she's a freedom girl. So I put her on the sand, and um, anyway, she was walking around on the sand and kind of having a sniff about, and I couldn't help myself. I had to take those damn photos, even though she hates it. And sometimes she'll she will make sure I don't get them. But anyway, uh, so she's, you know, down there experiencing all that, and then she gets off the sand and she wanders onto this little um path, and uh, and I said, So, what do you think? And she said, Um, I'm not that in love with the sand. That might be a lot of people's view. Um, I'm not that in love with the sand, but I love the sound of the ocean, and I love the breeze. Because there was a breeze blowing. She said, I love the breeze because they tell me stories, they tell me the deep stories. And I said, What about the pl? She said, of many things, of life, of how things work. She said, I hear their story. That just really, wow, I just went, okay. And then she just started walking up the path. And I said, you know what? I had no idea you could take a cat to the beach. Now I'm sure there's some people listening that are going, oh, I've taken my cat to the beach. I mean, I had I had a um an uncle years and years ago who used to take his cat surfing, a ginger cat. You can all appreciate the ginger cat. Uh great old ginge there, you know, get on the surfboard, and anyway, they'd get dumped and the cat would grab back on and off he'd go again. And uh, when that cat finally passed, you know, in an old age, my uncle was devastated because he didn't have his surfer mate with him. And and he used to make he used to make a joke, my uncle. He used to say, Oh, the cat surfs way better than me. Like, you know, right? So, you know, so I guess I I guess I knew about that, but I just didn't think it with Maddie, it just didn't cross my mind. And I I I wasn't, I mean, I wasn't always this close to the beach. But anyway, we're walking up the path, and I said, I had no idea that you I could have taken you to the beach or I could take a cat to the beach, and she said she just came out with it and said, You can take any being anywhere. And that just look, Donna, that just started a whole array and a uh it changed everything in my thought process and animals, and now you're bringing up Brucey's story, and I'm going, why not? Because you can take any being anywhere, right? That's right. So I I was happy about this story because of the community of people that are embracing Brucey. Like they're looking beyond his fore legs and his uh rather bold big body, and perhaps the way he smiles is a bit different. Um, they're looking beyond all that because they can see Brucie, they can see the heart and the soul of who this being is, and they're liking it. And I'm liking it too.

SPEAKER_05 54:40

He's just he's he's beautiful, that energy that comes out of him, that personality and the the strength and the safe you feel safe around him, even when I right there now, but you can feel how safe you would be around him. It's it's a rock solid, um like a powerhouse. He reminds me a little bit of Shay, your cat Shay, his energy reminds me a little bit of him, and it's just quite oh, it's just so lovely. I think we have to make a trip down to Albany and visit him. See if we can catch him in town.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

When you come over, honestly, Albany is the place to go. It's about four, four and a half hours, maybe five from Perth, but it's right down on the lower coast, and it's absolutely beautiful. But while we're talking about Brucie, it did just occur to me, you know, my mind goes everywhere, don't I? So it just occurred to me there might be somebody in our audience that says, Yeah, but what about the obvious? All right, we'll talk about the obvious.

SPEAKER_05 55:36

Promust.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

Yep. Is Brucie house-trained? Now, I I I'm wary to get started on this subject because the problem with it is uh, are we house-trained? Now, we might be toilet-wise, although not always, um, but in every other way we're not very house-trained because I'm I'm just gonna put this out there. I've seen more rubbish on the beach that have come from humans than I've ever seen from an animal. So can we just go there? All right, but we take our dogs out, so is there really a problem just because he looks a bit different?

SPEAKER_05 56:12

No.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

Can we not clean up after Brucie? And there could be a an instance where uh Brucie might be quite happy to uh choose an area or if we can talk to him and ask him to do something different. And the reason is cats are house trained, dogs are house trained, pigs can be house-trained, rabbits, uh guinea pigs. I I think if someone was listening who does do this with animals would probably give us a long list. So it's not because they can't, and oh how disgusting, they just go anywhere. I just want I just want to run a thought. Do you think that cows are out in a paddock usually? That's their thing, right? Same as a horse, right? So they're walking along and grazing, and I just haven't seen a portaloo on the property that's like the shape of a cow. I haven't yet. There might be one out there, not saying, not saying. Uh, but anyway, I haven't seen one. They have horses in parades, they have uh carriages of horses, and they put the little thing underneath. Perhaps he could have a little um uh let me say colour-coded with his body, a little, a little thing that they can attach on the back. That's what they do with the horses. A catcher, thank you. They could put a really uniquely coloured little carrier on the back. All right. So there's my solution. Uh thanks to Brucie. Uh, thanks to all the people that have welcomed Brucie in because that there is no discrimination right there. Zero discrimination. And he was just accepted like the rest of them. What a great story, Donna. Oh, it's definitely a good one. If you love this episode, please make sure you're following Animal Talk with Trisha McKay on your favorite podcast platform. Share this episode with one of your horsey friends and leave us a review. It helps more people find these important conversations. And remember, when we understand the horse, we understand trust, partnership, and the power of presence. Until next time, keep listening, keep learning, and keep talking with animals.